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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
234
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Posted - 2015.03.29 21:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Interesting idea...you'd get a lot of resistance from the WH-dwelling crowd in eve (or at least the elitists)...
Still forming up a proper response to add to this thread...but just a show of hands, who here has lived in w-space on a capsuleer? How long, what class, and what did you do?
I lived in a C3 for about 2 years, and a C4 for a year...
we did a bit of everything, primarily PvE/PvP, but with a heavy helping of Mining and Industry thrown in there to help out, we also did newbro outreach..
for now I'll say this, I loved my time in W-Space, and can't wait to go back...but I don't think that DUST has the capability of accurately portraying the lifestyle and challenges associated with W-Space...the logistics (not the role, but the concept) of moving things around, the constant fear or excitement of an attack by an unknown number of foes at any time...RULE #8 of W-Space: There Is ALWAYS a Cloaky Loki. Could be awesome if the system could support at least a bit of that attitude...
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
237
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Posted - 2015.03.30 16:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ok, meaningful reply time...
If we assume that we want to expand Planetary Conquest from the New Eden cluster to the Anoikis Cluster, while preserving as much of the feel of Anoikis (err...sorry W-Space Systems), here's some ideas:
- Game Mode: Acquisition - in W-Space, the "Geography" is in constant flux, could be explained as no one NULL cannon can be kept on for too long to avoid attracting the attention of the Sleepers.
- Orbital Support - CONCORD's lack of apparent presence in Anoikis has resulted in the space being entirely lawless, save for the immortals in it, Orbital Support Provided by Capsuleers Should be as unrestricted as possible. Anyone, weather a corp/alliance member of the involved corporations can connect to the district satellites, any merc squad leader (Regardless of side) should then be able to request the support, leaving it up to the capsuleer who they want to work for. Additionally, district Satalites should only take 30 seconds to connect (CONCORD doesn't care much for anyone in Anoikis, Immortal or Normal); however, providing more than 2 bombardments within 2 minutes of each-other attracts the attention of the Sleepers and spawns in X number of sleeper battleships (Talk with Iceland about this one, and the CSM, particularly see if you can get in contact with the CSM Representative Corbexx).
- Warbarge Support - De-cloaking without ship to ship munitions in Anoikis is little more than a death sentence, so some penalty should exist on warbarge bombards (Such as 2x WP to call in orbital support)
- Friendly Fire - Check your targets, or risk killing your allies.
- Rewards - Anoikis has been traditionally a High-Risk, High-Reward area, DUST side of things should reflect that. Although I'm not sure how to implement it for holding the districts, battle rewards could be (in addition to existing PC Rewards) something like Society of Conscious Thought LP...or some other organization who would be interesting in using Mercenary Held-Districts as observatories to study the sleepers (Sister of Eve, or maybe even CONCORD), given the nature of the emergent threats in New Eden...the LP Store would have Experimental Weapons, and possibly Experimental Mods/Dropsuits depending on how much can be done, or people want to be done with it.
I'll post some more concrete ideas later...also, I'm not quite sure how to implement bob into DUST, but I'm sure that once Mercs get involved in Anoikis, his power will permeate even the planetary environments
Please note: these are just some initial ideas I had...I'll post more as I have them, including possibly changing these...in all seriousness Rattati, get in contact with the CSM W-Space Representatives, and see how you can encourage the EVE-DUST link in the Anoikis Cluster without hurting the spirit of W-Space
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
240
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Posted - 2015.03.31 10:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:hell yes that's cool What would even be the point? the planets would still look exactly the same as the ones we already have when we're down on the ground, and the battles would sill be played the same. Rattati doesn't play EVE as far as I'm aware. I have assumed this is one of the primary reasons he pushes for Dust to do its own thing -- he can't come up with ideas that relate to EVE, because he doesn't relate to it at all personally. And that's fine. You do what you know. But in this case its a problem, because Anoikis is a very specific, very special thing in that it is completely isolated from the rest of New Eden. Skirmishes are fought here between raiders, pirates and explorers. But not wars. Nobody knows where exactly Anoikis is located, and even if it exists along the same timeline as New Eden does. All that is known is the Sleepers dwell here, and they brought the Talcon/certain Jovian with them before they died out/were assimilated into Sleeper stasis. There would be no reason whatsoever for us to be there, unless it was a capsuleer driven conflict. Serious eve-side work would have to be done to make this feasible, and last I checked they still didn't care about us enough to forge that link any further. This concept can be a twinkle in the eye, but until the game goes PS4 and CCP decides to give Dust its second wind of development there is nothing even remotely close that will happen.
The reason would (in my opinion) need to be the same reason Capsuleers set up shop in Anoikis, despite the inherent dangers and logistical problems...the High-Rewards (in space of Tech 3 Materials/Production)...and the type of fun that comes from the constant danger of getting ambushed out of nowhere.
Both of the downsides are something difficult to portray in DUST with current mechanics...and even the high-rewards section might feel a bit too gimmicky...but I feel that dismissing the possibility of Empyrean Mercs interest in Anoikis out of hand is bad...It's just something that DUST can't currently Portray very well at the moment...
At the very least, the idea is fun to think and theory-craft ways to try to implement...
So here's a few questions and possible answers in how things could work:
1. How do the mercs get there? - My answer: The same way every other New Eden interest does, through the unstable Wormholes.
2. Why don't the current W-Space residents shoot at the Warbarges? - My Answer: Warbarges don't show up on capsuleer overviews, same as 90% of implied civilian traffic in EVE.
3. Why would Empyrean Mercenaries be interested in Planets within Anoikis? - My Answer: Same reason Capsuleers are interested in the space - The ISK, The Experience, The Chance to Stake a claim and Defend it without cumbersome Sov Mechanics...to call that little corner of the Universe (Or possibly Multiverse in the Case of Anoikis) your own, even if you are the only one who recognizes it as such.
4. How do they deal with the logistics involved in the constantly changing Space-Scape inherent in Anoikis? My answer: I'm not sure...perhaps they would have to pay an ISK Cost to scan out the chain back to K-Space...or perhaps a Tax on exports/transportation based on the number of jumps? This is where DUST's current systems falls back on accurately portraying it
5. How do they deal with the defense of a constant changing environment? My Answer: Like logistics, this is a though one to fully look at...attacking a particular W-Space system is no simple matter and DUST's mechanics fall short again here...could kind of get a bit of the feel from doing the Acquisition Game Mod talked about at Fanfest
6. What kind of rewards would be gained? My Answer: W-Space (Anoikis) inhabitants gather resources involved in production of Tech 3 Ships in Eve (The Customizable Strategic Cruisers, or the Adaptable Tactical Destroyers)...Tech 3 Equipment doesn't exist in DUST as is...but some interim rewards could be established (Things like Experimental Weaponry Production and the like)...additionally, the Powers that Be in New Eden are taking even more of an interest in Anoikis as the Observation Towers Continue to Decloak, Circadian Sleepers continue to roam and Scan, and Drifters continue to blap any capsuleer (and presumable normals) brave or stupid enough to get too close to what they are guarding...it could be that CONCORD, or something like the Society of Conscious Thought might have an interest in setting up observatories within Anoikis, and pay whomever can defend them from the sleepers...just a few rambling thoughs XD
7. Why does Empyrean Merc Clone Jump Tech work in Anoikis, but Capsuleer Jump Clones Don't? My Answer: I've Technobabbled enough Explanations already...but for this one, I haven't a clue...maybe The Construct can amplify the Signal of the Empyrean Merc Implants? (After all, we use tech derived from it...but no longer directly harvested from it)...It's Possible that local infrastructure could be set up to facilitate a local, short-ranged Clone Jump (Or Clone Swap)...
I agree that it is something that would be difficult to implement under current systems, but I would debate against there being no Reason for Empyrean Mercs to be in Anoikis itself...we are mercenaries after all, all we would need is someone to pay use...and we are immortal after all, don't think Why...think Why Not
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
252
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Posted - 2015.04.02 01:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:hell yes that's cool What would even be the point? the planets would still look exactly the same as the ones we already have when we're down on the ground, and the battles would sill be played the same. Because we can have games where the wormhole phenomena change how the game is played, just like it does in Eve. Imagine a battle where it plays the same, but all weapons do 25% extra damage. Or where shields and armor are reduced by 50%. Also this allows for a further roll out of PC that does not have to interact with either CONCORD or Sov mechanics. The best way to find more connective tissue for EVE/Dust is to do it in areas where it won't require a rework of existing mechanics/balance. There is more opportunity to grow once foundations have been laid in less troubled waters.
Exactly, is a nice place to set it up to where the system doesn't interfere with existing capsuleer systems of play...lore reasons for things aside (As much as I love them, it's mostly Technobabble anyway), it needs to be set up in such a way as to not interfere with existing capsuleer activity in the area, while rewarding those capsuleers who choose to interact with it. The system should also do its best to capture the "Spirit" of Anoikis...(Since implementing all the exact mechanics would be very difficult...ie I don't know how much people would like Environmental Effects...I personally would love to see them implemented...but I'd avoid Red Giants like the plague)
I do think it'll be far more interesting if CCP decides to tackle the problem of Logistics in a way that doesn't interfere with current capsuleer gameplay...(...Starmap of Anoikis could now be available due to the Sisters of Eve's Explorations in the region...but no pattern has as of yet been observed for WHs other than their Target Connection, and giving Mercs access to that data would make the intel war in w-space much easier for eggers)...after determining this, it becomes just a matter of getting good enough technobabble to explain the how/why the clone systems for Empyrean Mercs works there, but not Jump Clones for Capsuleers
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
253
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Posted - 2015.04.02 04:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Hides in a Wolf-Rayet.....
A good ol' blap the chimera in a daredevil hole type
Amarr HAVs would be frakking scary in a Wolf-Rayet if both got implemented...especially if 180mm plates made a comeback...mmm Armor HP...
If they made Caldari able to do Siege Warfare with their shields (as is Caldari's way)...dat Gunnlogi in a Pulsar (although, I liked Pulsars and Cataclysms best for POS defense reasons)...
LAVs and Scouts might be absolutely hilarious in a Black Hole XD
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
256
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Posted - 2015.04.03 15:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
DJINN, I do not think either of us are implying there needs to be a mechanics change for W-Space, just that the lack of an overriding system of any kind makes it an ideal location to place PC, so as not to interfere with existing Capsuleer systems. Also, you can generally assume I'm aware of how to hold a system without using Sov. Additionally, I have made sure to say in earlier posts that Shanghai should talk to Iceland and the CSM (In particular the W-Space Reps) before implementing anything...as it must be in the spirit of Anoikis...but you are correct, corp battle-style may be more optimal for W-Space, but I wouldn't want anyone to completely rule out PC at the moment.
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
257
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Posted - 2015.04.03 22:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
DJINN Jecture wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:DJINN, I do not think either of us are implying there needs to be a mechanics change for W-Space, just that the lack of an overriding system of any kind makes it an ideal location to place PC, so as not to interfere with existing Capsuleer systems. Also, you can generally assume I'm aware of how to hold a system without using Sov. Additionally, I have made sure to say in earlier posts that Shanghai should talk to Iceland and the CSM (In particular the W-Space Reps) before implementing anything...as it must be in the spirit of Anoikis...but you are correct, corp battle-style may be more optimal for W-Space, but I wouldn't want anyone to completely rule out PC at the moment. As mentioned to Cross, PC implies conquest, adding sov to a wormhole environment IMO is neither desirable nor part of existing design goal for either Eve or Dust ATM not that Shattered holes may not have something like that lined up for the future but rather the existing Static Mapped wormholes do not have that structure designed into them. Look specifically at an Epicenter, the mass of stable violent wormholes waiting to be tamed by a player constructed stargate, there lies some planning towards static connected wormholes through the means of able players, however mass limited, time limited holes do not. EDIT:BTW for sake of calling mercs by their names in the future, the DJINN honorific is one earned through trial by fire and participation in the Betas with Hellstorm. As seen before there are many a DJINN and none go by the name DJINN, DJINN Kujo, DJINN Jur, DJINN Phoenix, DJINN Rampage to name a few, the second part of the name denotes who we are not the first. Yes I have been around since Closed Beta, Open Beta was where I earned my DJINN honorific. I wear the badge with honor, never backing down from a fight, always seeking to make my world a better place for myself and those I surround myself with.
My mistake then on the DJINN part of things.
The New Systems that are implied to be planned by the whole Stargate Building thing would be a better place for it, but Corp Battles and/or PC needs new ground now...and I'd hardly call PC district claiming as far-reaching as Sov, but I do see the analogy. As I've stated, anything that would be implemented I'd like to see be in the Spirit of Anoikis as it is now...I merely formed ideas based on the assumption that it was cool enough to happen...especially given the origins of Empyrean Mercenary Implant Tech coming from W-Space (Yes, I know we no longer have Direct From Sleeper Implants, but the tech is based on the sleeper designs)...(additionally, as I pointed out earlier, the recent threats from the drifters and Circadian Sleepers seem to have something to do with Anoikis, which has greatly increased the NPC Empires's/CONCORD's interest in Anoikis.)
@Godin I think the reason PC isn't in NULL sec yet is because CCP got hung up on the idea of PC affecting Sov...so it got killed/delayed indefinitely because no one in eve would want to have to rely on a completely different game in order to maintain their Empires...although, we still have a lot of Non-FW LS and a lot of NPC Null to go through before W-Space becomes the only option...
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
Vehicle Re-vamp Proposal
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